A question to all you wine buffs out there, from Rita, the (usually) non-drinker.
Why is it that a so-called dessert wine, like Wellington Iced Reisling for instance, is poured, priced and treated as a dessert wine? If I want it as a glass of wine to accompany my meal , why the hell can’t I have it in a glass the same size as the white or red YOU have with your meal? Why am I discriminated against so?
Just because I have a sweeter tooth than you, why do I have to be subjected to a way smaller glass for my wine of choice? It shits me the way, when I ask for a glass of Wellington Iced Reisling when everyone else orders their wine, that it is automatically assumed I want it in that PISSY port glass size! I DON’T! I want the normal sized glass of it!
I have asked at ordering time, if I could have it in the usual sized glass, only to be told that as it’s a dessert wine, it’s served (and presumably priced) at that, so…no.
It seems to be the same or similar price of many whites or reds, either by the glass or by the bottle, so why the difference in glass sized servings? Surely I, as the customer, should be able to request a normal sized glass of my wine of choice, at whatever price?
I LOVE that wine. I’d LOVE to drink it with my mains. But not in the piddly, insulting amount they allow me to have. How would you like it if they poured YOU a glass of your fave Ninth Island in a port glass? Bet you’d pretty soon yell and scream, and storm out in a huff! They won’t oblige me, so I never even bother asking now. I just order a Coke, because I’m way over it, and don’t feel like having to explain myself, or make an issue of something which really isn’t that big a deal.
So – can someone please enlighten me further as to why this happens, please?
Tuesday, 10 June 2008
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19 comments:
BYO it, Rita....stuff the buggers...tell them you demand to be treated like everybody else (shamefully)!
I have a friend who only ever drinks dessert wine. Just stand your ground, order two and when they bring it over pour both into a normal glass. Though you get extra entertainment from the waiting staff who freak out when he orders. From the looks he gets you'd think he'd just asked them for a humpback whale sandwich! Plus it gets him out of feeling the need to tip 99% of the time.
Way back Rita in France when boozy brekkies were the normal way to start the day a dish of sauteed Foie Gras was matched well with a goblet of sweet wine or Sauterne, most notably Chateau Yquem or a Barsac.
I dont actually know of any rule though that prevents a dessert wine being served in a regular wine glass especailly as you say they still get their margins by the glass-perhaps they just get more glasses to a bottle this way?
Having said this I have always insisited on a proper wine glass when having a dessert wine to enjoy its full glory.
I think it might just be a collective assumption by staff that has morphed into being a service standard that no one has actually bothered to stop think about & question the reasoning behind?
Even if this might be the case, surely their job is to 'please you' not just adhere to some obscure vino-decree. For instance if a punter want their portion of soup seperated into two bowls to share, we dont go:"Sorry Maam, this soup is designed to be served in the lion head bowl only". We plonk it in two bowls, end of chat.
I would insist on it next time you are out, failing that speak to the manager & get them to explain this illogical practice.
sticky wine bottles (dessert wines) are actually smaller than a normal bottle of wine, so to stick to the "standard" ratio of 5 glasses to a bottle a smaller glass is appropriate, your not going to get any establishment to server you a dessert wine in a larger glass (to the level of a different wine) unless you explain that you are prepared to pay for 2 glasses worth. (or something of the sort)
you will also find that in most cases a dessert wine has a higher alcohol content (caused by the extra sweetness of the wine), which is also another reason that the wine may be served in a smaller glass.
("Dessert wines are generally satisfying with just a glass, maybe two. The satisfying sweetness of dessert wines "closes your palate" as Kevin Zraly, author of Windows On The World Complete Wine Course (2006, Sterling Publishing CO., N.Y.) describes the wine's effect, so dessert wines are not usually consumed in large quantities. Additionally, a dessert wine may be very sweet and filling on its own, and although dessert wines are served to accompany dessert, they are also served as dessert. This can be especially appropriate after a heavy meal when there is really no room left for dessert.
Dessert wines might also be well used as a transition between the meal and dessert, clearing the palate of the flavors of the meal and preparing for sweeter things to come. (Another suggestion for serving dessert wines from Kevin Zraly).
The sweetness of a dessert wine limits it as far as food pairing. Dessert wines are traditionally paired with dessert foods (if at all) because those are the dishes most similar to the wines, both in taste and texture." quoted from http://www.wineloversmeet.com/articles/article254.php)
on a finishing note a bottle of dessert wine is 375ml, and a bottle of normal wine is about 750ml. more than anything its a hospitality tradition, its been that way forever and i can personally see nothing wrong with it.
g
Rita you must understand its not an assumption, its how dessert wine is served. and as the above post says, and as you have pointed out "they are of similar price by the bottle and by the glass" problem is a dessert wine bottle is half the size of a normal one...
sounds like you need a drink Rita!
Guys - I'm hearing you loud and clear! Thanks for the explanations re the bottle size, and how NORMAL people regard it. Thanks also for explaining the higher alcohol issue too. I thank you all for taking the time to speak to me.
So - if I translate all the above - what I should do is, when I want my (sweet, sticky) wine with my main, I should order 2 glasses of Wellington Iced Reisling, and an empty normal wine glass, then pour both pissy sized glasses of sticky into the normal sized empty glass?
That should make everyone happy? Whew! I DO need a drink after that!
I understand your frustration Rita.
I like things how I like them, not how someone tells me I should.
You know all about my love of eggs and bacon with maple syrup and raisin toast with vegemite.
I also loved heinz spaghetti and fish fingers with heaps of lemon juice as a child. Mashed potato smothered in Holbrooks worcestershire sauce, chiko rolls with chips stuffed down the middle then worcestershire poured in til it's soggy, all these things are right up there too, but rarely eaten these days.
I've been told I should never put parmesan on a pasta containing seafood, it's not the done thing apparently, but I love it. I also drink red wine with every thing including seafood, even oysters.
My sister always looks scared whenever we dine out together as it takes me a while to explain exactly how I'd like my meal. A little like when Harry met Sally sometimes.
I'm probably not as bad as I sound as I do believe the chef in most cases is spot on with what goes with what.
So I always thank everyone for informing me on how it should be and have it how I like it any way.
Each to their own I say and after all I'm paying for it.
Rita,
Have you tried other sweet, non desert wines? Craigow Gwertztraminer, Wellington FGR, Crouchen Reisling? (Please mind my poor spelling)
Thanks Christina. You're even wackier than ME with your food preferences! But, as you finish up saying, it's all aboput what each of us love, and I think, within reason, we should be able to have some input into that. Having said that, I DO believe that when a chef makes up a recipe or dish, they are doing it with the ultimate creation being what they consider the most ideal combination of ingredients, so if someone comes along and asks the waitperson if such-and-such a dish contains xx or yy or zz, then asks for that ingredient to be left off, or out, of the dish, then that may well destroy the full effect which the chef originally set out to achieve; then you might get the customer complaining that the dish was boring, or average, or even lacking and sub-standard.
So - it's all about give and take; and commonsense.
Anon 1.35 - I adore the Crouchen Reisling, but haven't yet tasted the Wellington FGR, although son suggested the other day that I should try it as he knows my tastes in wines (or lack thereof!), so I will. Ditto the Craigow Gewurtztraminer. Is the Craigow as sweet as the Iced Reisling?
Hi Rita
I was very attracted to the approach outlined by Forde Montgomery. It shouldn't matter how the wine is "usually" served - if you want a larger serve, and are prepared to pay the appropriate cost, it shouldn't matter at all! While dessert wine often comes in 375 ml bottles, it can also come in the standard 750 ml bottle. Allowing for differences in price that might apply, any restaurant worth its salt should be able to figure out an appropriate charge (Many of the top end wines are equivalent in price to a dessert wine, and they certainly aren't served in piddly little port glasses!)
Just remind yourself - who is the customer? I would have thought that the lady who don't hesitate to order her steak well done would have any qualms about getting a glass of something sweet and white to go with it!
Susannah
ps that last bit reminded me of a tour of the north-eastern wineries I went on once with my mother. As a definite fancier of the fruitier moselles, she was a bit miffed at the offerings. By the time we got to Delamere, she asked, in desperation "Haven't you got a white that is a bit sweeter?". The winemaker's response was "Madam, the only sweet, white thing around here is me".
Sorr, G but Kevin Zraly (who?) can kiss my arse.
That's his ideas. But the gerwurztraminer (spelling?) or sweet reisling or moselle might be the answer for you.
Susannah - you're right but I only have the fortitude to fight one battle at a time! Given the choice between the steak battle and/or the wine battle, I usually pursue the steak one over the wine one!
Sir G - yep, I'm hearing you about young (or old) Kevin Zraly! That's great about the dessert wine dissertation, but the context in which I originally raised the subject was that, being fully cognisant of all the info about dessert wines, and the follow-on serving people's attitudes to my desire for the SAME amount of my wine of choice as everyone else at the table having THEIR wine of choice with their main course, I felt I should be able to have it - no matter what the wine was originally brewed or stewed for!
And yes, Susannah, I have partaken of many bottles of sweeties that are in 750 mls, as well as the 375 mls, so don't feel that's an issue at all, really.
I'm getting the impression that just because I have a sweeter palate than others, I need to be seen as possessing a more inferior taste to others with their more highbrow and well-developed senses of taste and flavour!
Now that's not what our grandfathers fought in the two World Wars for!
Don't get me wrong Rita,
I'd never go to Marque IV, or the equivalent, and ask Paul to change one of his dishes.
I was thinking more along the line of what I like at say D'angelos on my pizza {vegeterian with hot salami, anchovies and pineapple},or pasta {I usually mix 2 of their sauces together and they are more than happy for me to do that}, or a schnitzel parmagiana with less cheese, chips and salad instead of vegies, more along those lines.
A little easier than some people I've dined with and they've requested something like pork belly with a fennnel slaw, but could you take the fennel out?
Or a bento box but could I have no fish in it please. This has really happened, and even I get exasperated!
I've juast thought of the solution, Rita.
Order any drier wine you fancy and put a couple of spoons of sugar in and dissolve it.
Add as much sugar as you like. eh viola, sooperb.
Oh Sir G! You've uncovered my guilty secret! I HAVE done that in the past! I got the piss well and truly taken out of me, but I have added sugar to my wine when it wasn't sweet enough for me!
(Oh god, why did I confess to that! Now they'll all know how uncool I am truly am!!)
Your secret's safe with me, Rita.
PS, a nice chunk of ripe cheese will make even a bitter wine taste much mellower and sweeter...maybe you should try that!
So get the cheese platter or pinch a bit from a fellow diner if you can't resist dessert.
A nice bit of mature cheddar will do it.
Wash rong wif youse people who can't get orf on a nice vat of dry red? I like to dip my hunka cheeze in bowl of vino to get rid of the bitta taste and add a drop of diet coke (I'm diabetic) for a nice dessert wine
Also try Moscato di Asti, (not the Riccadona shite) light, sweet and generally very low in alcohol. It would also present better with a wider range of foods than a traditional dessert wine.
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