Anonymous has left a new comment, below, on your post "Saffron Cafe":
"well anon 8.19 where are all the other blogs about every other service that we have in our lives? why is it only the food industry that is under such open criticism? where are the blogs about hairdressers, telephone companies, mechanics, etc etc? - the list could go on. there is too much wank and uneducated opinion surrounding food these days. and you know what, the customer is not always right."
.....Does anyone want to buy into the above discussion under the Saffron Cafe post? Obviously Rita has her own opinion, but I'm interested to see if anyone else has an opinion on the above Anon's statement?
Friday, 25 July 2008
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28 comments:
the difference is passion.
people these days are much more interested in food and wine. They may be uneducated, but they are the ones who pay for it in the end.
LT
I agree with LT
Anon:
So whats your point with your first post: Is it that you don’t like being criticised ? or is it that your happy to accept good reviews only?
We spend our lives being reviewed, rated and judged and some of us even seek out fame – so why should it be different with restaurants & cafes. You have a bad experience – you tell 10 people …. It’s been that way since ‘man’ first crawled out of the swamp.
The reason that most people open a business is that they want to make money – it is no different in the hospitality industry. If you can enjoy themselves – great!!! If you can make their customers happy – fantastic!!! But it is all about money because if it wasn’t we would give the food away.
Much has been written about the qualifications needed to be a critic – possibly the biggest requirement is “respect” and of course knowledge. And yes there is too much wank and uneducated opinion surrounding food these days. But much of it in this town is driven by a small circle of people. Often new comers to food in this city don’t understand this and they think they have just “invented the wheel” they come and set up shop at an ever increasing rate – they also close down within the first few years – ask a local foodie they can real off the names of at least a dozen places that have done their dough in the last couple of years. Yes its great to have the transfusion of new blood but at what cost? – wrecked lives, bankruptcy ….
Yes there is some very bad food in this town and people still pay money for it day in day out. Because they either don’t know any better or it’s what they want. We try hard to educate our customers but some don’t want to listen.
It is tough in food at the moment - the margins are decreasing at an alarming rate. The cost of staff, rent ,power and food has gone through the roof and disposable income has plummeted. The odds are that only large establishments will survive and prosper – small places will always struggle to provide the owner operator a living.
Wake up Anon 9:35 its time to get up !
And yes when you have bills to pay – the customer is ALWAYS right.
Cool Room
The customer may not always be right, but ignore them, or talk down to them, at your peril if you wan't to stay in business!
I don't need to be trained in cooking or food production to know when something tastes good or not, and being right is often a very subjective thing.
And anyone who wants to see a blog about hairdressers and car mechanics can bloody well write one themselves.
I agree with LT and anon 9:09.
Passion. It's something we all,{those of us that participate in the food blogs}, care about.
Not so sure about the uneducated comment. Surely we are at least trying to educate ourselves about food and wine at least by participating in these blogs.
My interest is a lot about recommendations from other diners about where to go and whats good.
I feel we're not so much passing judgement, just referring people to the places we all agree have a great package. The package being value for money, service,atmosphere, and quality mostly.
It's because we care, that we comment. When it's great we want to share it with others so they too can share in our experience, when its not so great we share so we are at least aware of any shortcomings we may experience on the night.
As you can see if you've spent any time reading this blog in particular, every one has differing views on any place mentioned, and ultimately I feel we all tend to make up our own mind.
As we are all different we all have different tastes and expectations. This blog and others like it is merely a guide.
I really think word of mouth is advertisement money can't buy.If you are worth your salt, and have nothing to be ashamed of, why worry.
If I was in the industry I'd think it wonderful to get feedback, positive or negative, so I could use it to my advantage.
I would find it hard not to take it personally though, I admit. I put my heart and soul into my cooking and am so upset when my family don't really like it. My big reason for not being a professional.
I agree the customer is always right, even when they're not, because they are the one's who are ultimately paying your wages.
A very interesting comment though.
If you've nothing to hide or be ashamed of, why worry?
At the very least it's the perfect forum to give explanations, answer questions and get constructive advice from the people that do ultimately matter most, your customers.
Some of my staff who are aware that our business has been blogged about & commented on are extremely uneasy with this reality of somehow being 'under surveilance'. It makes them very uncomfortable & one has even mentioned that it is almost invasive. It is an unfortunate side effect from the comments that has not really been discussed. The effect on the person to whom the comments were directed.
I would argue that the difference between food outlets and other services such as hairdressers, mechanics etc is diversity and the differing nature of the industries.
Generally, one will find a hairdresser they like and return there whenever they need a hair cut. Similarly, one will return to a mechanic who fixes their car for a fair price. Someone may change their telephone company if they happen upon one with a better deal to suit their needs, but this is too much of a hassle to do too often. These kinds of decisions are usually informed by shopping around or asking a knowledgeable friend (and at this point forums like this would no doubt be helpful) but once somebody finds a service provider they are happy with, there is not likely to be a reason to change.
Food however - while you may return again and again to a restaurant/cafe where you had a delicious meal with fantastic service, most food lovers will be constantly curious about trying new places. It's an on going process (and I certainly eat at restaurants more frequently than I change phone companies!). I've found this blog wonderfully helpful and informative and believe the food industry should be reviewed and agree with above comments - if the restaurant/cafe is doing what I expect them to do (ie provide quality food at a fair price) then what is the problem with this?
Generally, one will find a hairdresser they like and return there whenever they need a hair cut. Similarly, one will return to a mechanic who fixes their car for a fair price. Someone may change their telephone company if they happen upon one with a better deal to suit their needs, but this is too much of a hassle to do too often. These kinds of decisions are usually informed by shopping around or asking a knowledgeable friend (and at this point forums like this would no doubt be helpful) but once somebody finds a service provider they are happy with, there is not likely to be a reason to change.
Food however - while you may return again and again to a restaurant/cafe where you had a delicious meal with fantastic service, most food lovers are constantly curious about trying new places. It's an on going process (and I certainly eat at restaurants more frequently than I change phone companies!).
I've found this blog wonderfully helpful and informative and believe the food industry should be reviewed and agree with above comments - if the restaurant/cafe is doing what I expect them to do (ie provide quality food and service) then what is the problem with this?
Because its so subjective Mary. Most people will agree that their car has been fixed for a fair price but will ofetn have opposing views on a meal at the same place.
The customer is not always right. This is a mode of thinking adapted from our feral brothers and sisters in America. It was spawned by the adoration of money, and money only.Of course we want to please our customers, make their day, even tantalise them; but, do you want to be an obsequious sycophant to an arsehole just because he, or she is a customer, or do you want to box on and trust what you are doing and put yourself in a posistion to grab the real rewards? Too many operators are only seduced by fame and money, therefore producing crap and never doing anything really good. This is the blight of the modern food industry.
I forgot to say that I am in love with the silver fairy, as are my mates. ( f..k, I hope you're a girl)
A very simplistic view Anon 9:50 it in fact came from Fine Dining in Europe . . . The chef or waiter could be sacked on the say so of a disgruntled customer.
So not just a yank thing.
As I said before:
The reason that most people open a business is that they want to make money – it is no different in the hospitality industry. If they can enjoy themselves doing it – great!! If they can make their customers happy – fantastic and even better if they can produce great tasting food !!! But it is all about money because if it wasn’t we would give the food away.
Cool Room
Cool Room. What do you mean by, if it wasn't for money, we would give it away? Of course every business wants to make a good return, thats what McDonalds does. If you are passionate about whatever you do, and have the gumption to stick with what you think is right, withthe necessary skills, then you have the best formula to make the most money that you can. Mediocrity, even with financial nous, is still mediocrity.
Again, I forgot to say; silver fairy if you're not a girl I could turn. Please talk to us, we're waiting.
Interesting Anon9:50....
I thought it was different.
It's about making a product that someone wants.
If no one buys it (money) then your ( business is ) stuffed.
If it was just about food and nothing else You would give it away.
Cool Room
Cool Room, I still don't get the 'give it away'bit. I understand the basic business philosophy, what I am saying is that you can make more money if you are true, and good at what you do, rather than just being adept at reading the fleeting trends.
silver fairy, we'll be at the machine cafe at about 10;00 tomorrow. Don't be too scared, we're not that wierd.
how can the customer always be right?
what is the role of the professional?
why is everything for sale, including
the integrity of the operator?
coolroom, you view is simplistic. making money doesn't involve rendering oneself to anothers demands and assertions.
FYI, anon 9.50 is correct in stating that the advent of customer
protocol in relation to currency exchange and services rendered does preceed fine dining in europe. it is believed to have originated around the time of the reformation and spread with the pilgrims from holland to the new world, namely pennsylvania. interestingly it was known as bestowing the "grace" of god on a service provider, grace being money and was used as lever to
ensure the consumer was always correct or otherwise they were blasphemous and some were even put to death for suggesting otherwise!
Such interesting discussion guys. Valid points made by all. Cool Room is absolutely correct in his saying that the customer is always right, as is Anon2 in saying that you ignore them at your peril, because, as he quite rightly points out, they are the ones who ultimately pay your wages, so if your 'style' pisses them off, they don't go to your business, and you're the looser.
The things is, that while philosophically we can all admit that is, and has to be, the way things are, we should all be able to admit too, that in most cases the customer actually is an uneducated dickhead who knows jack-shit about your food or service ethos. BUT - you still have to practice your customer service skills on them and pretend! Sorry, but it's called 'life' and if you have dealings with other humans, that's exactly the way it's always going to be.
It IS kind of like being a prostitute, or a sychophant, but hell, how many times and situations in life do you find yourself in a situation like that? Starting from when you're a 2 year old child, and your mum tells you how beautiful that scribble picture is, which you claim is a picture of the Mona Lisa, and fast-forwarding to today, where you yourself need to just smile politely and lie there and take it!
We all have to compromise ourselves. If you're front of house, your service should be able to stand up to any scrutiny. If you're consistently providing the same good service to all in the way you do things, you'll never be caught out, or feel you're under scutiny.
I beleive that the customer is always right even when they're wrong.
Without them there is no business pure & simple.
Does this mean to prosper you must pander to the middle ground as some suggest? I dont think so.
Look at businesses that thrive by challenging diners & to a degree educating them & taking them out of their comfort zones.
If you were to look at these businesses on paper they would not stack up compared to say a more conventional restaurant serving what appears to be 'what people want'. However, some not only survive but some thrive. What I get from this is that you dont always have to follow someone elses lead to be a success.
It is true that a larger population can support restauarnts that are at either end of this spectrum but this means the middle ground is broader also, look at Sydney, some of our best & brightest restaurants but also a huge amount of very poor ones.
On the issue of reviewing, blogging & commenting. It is fine to say if you are doing everything to the best of your abilities then why worry?
Who decides if a person is doing things to the best of their abilities? Obviously its not the individual because they're not the ones blogging or commenting? This puts the commenter in a position of power & subjectively deciding if one person isn't up to scratch. In most cases the person in question isn't aware of the commnets so dosn't reply.
So, they are left unnaware & the apparent problem with their service may continue. Wouldn't it be more constructive to address the issues then & there?
Back to the notion of 'if you're not doing anything wrong, why worry'
Would you feel the same way about CCTV following your every move as you live your life? I'm sure you might not be doing anything wrong but it is still an invansion of privacy?
I'll finish by saying that of course I read blogs & like them for all the reasons that we all do.
What became appernt to me though after Sir G's comments, was not that their was criticism of the service(which I'm happy to take on board & we'll continue to address)But the uneasinessthat has permeated some of our staff as they now feel they are being watched all the time. This aspect has made them feel uncomfortable & awkward. I think its an interesting aspect that has not been bought up before?
So Hungry in Hogtown if we accept your theory that it.... "originated around the time of the reformation and spread with the pilgrims from holland to the new world.....",I gather that in your world Holland is no longer in Europe???
Nice try but last time I looked at the map it hadn't moved.
Simplistic or not the reality is that very few business's that don't make money survive thrive and prosper. The exception to the rule is of course a government owned enterprise.
Cool Room
Following a long conversation about the contents of todays and yesterdays blog post and comments with Gobbler, I need to acknowledge a few things.
Firstly, he's got a valid point in saying that people CAN feel under scrutiny and therefore threatened in some way if they know they're under the blog microscope. That is a valid feeling and despite my saying or feeling that if they're doing the right thing, they don't have anything to worry about, the fact remains that some people just are and do, so from that perspective, I take back what I said above.
That said, I stick by the generalisation I made (sweeping as it was!!) about the fact that all customers are uneducated dickheads! The old chestnut of 'you can't please all the people all the time' is true. You simply can't. I may have produced my best dish ever, but if the person I've made it lovingly and specially for didn't like it, then it's a failure, no matter what my feelings about it. However, if I don't give a rats about who eats it or what they think about it, but just know that I myself am 100% happy with the dish there in front of me about to go out to whomever, then I must blind myself to subsequent fallout, and know that at the end of the day, it met my high expectations, and that's all I can say about it. If I have to apologise to a customer because it didn't meet their expectations, well, so be it. I'll have to just suck it.
I have in fact done this, as Gobbler and I discussed, and though it pained me to do so, I was then, and still am, of the mindset that I just have to take it on the chin.
It's a pain in the arse when it's negative, but one of the best moments of my life came when sitting at a bar in Hobart having a knock-off drink after work, in idle conversation with a fellow drinker there. We started talking about the lack of service there, and he told me about his most outstanding customer service experience in his life. I recognised that story as being about me, halfway through the telling. I managed to finish his story for him, thus confirming for him that it had indeed been me! This was about 5 years after it had happened. I hadn't at the time thought I was doing anything different to things I did every day, but I was overjoyed that some small thing I'd done one day had actually made such a huge impact on someone elses life.
I don't know how to deal with the 'constant scrutiny' issue for people in hospitality. I'm genuinely sorry that people feel like that. But does that mean I give up blogging, and everyone gives up making any comments about anything, just in case someone feels criticised for doing their job?
I don't think so. I suppose all you can do is try and be more aware of the fact that these are REAL people we're talking and writing about and either praising or criticising here on the blog. People who possibly read what is written and could get quite scarred by it. But also maybe they don't a shit what we all think, and it's back to the status quo.
As you can see, once again I'm appearing to be a fence-sitter on this, but I can see both sides, and waver between both!
Here here
The staff are always under scrutiny by the diner but not in any CIA way!
If it all goes well and you are in jovial company you still register that.
So, too when there are problems.
In posting on a blog you are merely relating your experience. I certainly don't go into a place to watch the staff. That would be creepy. But when I know they messed up a little last time and I have returned, it is bound to be a point of comparison.
Don't worry about it guys, it's not an episode of My Restaurant Rules.
We are on your side when we RETURN. Or else we wouldn't.
If I make an arsehole of myself as a customer, you'll note that and mention it to workmates. Human nature.
Relax.
Sir G, that puts it into perspective I think. Well said!
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